What do the conflicts around the First Amendment look like to a creator like John Ondrasik, the Five for Fighting frontman? And what do shopping carts have to do with success?
Yesterday afternoon, I got the opportunity to catch up with my friend John, not long after spending an evening with him in Houston. John and I start off by discussing his speech and performance to a group of entrepreneurs two weeks ago, where John wove some amazing lessons about success in business and in music. John’s family business story is pretty amazing, and may be very familiar to anyone who’s pushing shopping carts on a regular basis. The Ondrasik family business, Precision Wire, makes those carts for chains like HEB (huge in Texas), Albertson’s, Costco, and other stores. I confess to finally — finally — tipping over into embarrassing fan-boy gushing with John, and show off the swag I got for it.
We also talk about his music and its connection to family. He told a touching story about one of his best songs, “I Just Love You,” and how his daughter inspired it. John also gets a chance to talk up his wife Carla’s new book, Stop Trying!: The Life-Transforming Power of Trying Less and Doing More, which just came out this Tuesday. Carla will join me on a podcast soon to talk more about her book and her amazing journey as well.
We then move into the issues of the day — the First Amendment conflicts, Charlie Kirk’s assassination and memorial service, and foreign policy. We start with the controversy over Jimmy Kimmel, Google’s exposure of massive government censorship (and how it affected John directly), move into foreign policy, especially Donald Trump’s recent remarks on Ukraine and Russia.
Below are highlights from our conversation, lightly edited from an AI-generated transcript. On talent, success, and inspiration:
JOHN: I think talent is a very small component of success in the arts. So much of it goes into things that any business runs, work ethic, relationships, humility, taking rational risks, learning from failure, you know, all that stuff goes into being successful and kind of in life, really. And again, for me, you know, I got lucky that the stars aligned and I just love you, as you mentioned, is a song that my daughter gifted to me when she was four years old, because one of the tools I use that is critical is just listening, you know, listening, I hear songs, I hear people talking.
And those experiences, if you’re a songwriter, you can take those and turn them into songs. And one night I called the house like any other night and on the road, and she answered and said, daddy, I have something to tell you. And I said, what’s going on, sweetheart? She said, I just love you. And I said, I love you too. She said, daddy, I’m talking, listen to me. Like her mother that way. She says, Daddy, I just love you.
I don’t know why I just do. And, you know, that’s just a moment that, you know, that you love in your heart. …
On Kimmel:
ED: Sinclair and Nexstar, these are the two affiliate groups that control 25% of ABC’s affiliates, but actually broadcast to 40% of ABC’s audience. I think that they were already coming to Disney and saying, we’re sick of this, especially the comments that were made.
That’s the kind of free market response that I’m fine with. The problem is, of course, Nexstar and Sinclair also have to deal with the FCC. And so when Brendan Carr stepped in there, Sinclair, Star has an acquisition deal that’s going to require FCC approval. So there’s this hint that that was part of what motivated it. And I think Sinclair’s got something going on as well. So people are pointing at that and saying, well, this is the issue.
And now you’ve got Democrats in Congress saying, well, we need to break up Sinclair.
JOHN: … At the end of the day, and again, what Kimmel said, and I do believe that it was not some kind of off-the-cuff, and again, he didn’t apologize for it, but basically blaming Charlie Kirk’s assassination on a MAGA Republican. That was coordinated because if you look at the polls, most Democrats believe it was a right wing Republican who killed Charlie Kirk. And they saw that this moment was transcending and affecting the culture in ways nothing has had in decades, in my mind.
And they needed to get out to their viewers and their audiences. And you see this in the media still, people still saying, well, we’re not sure what happened. So it wasn’t some slip of the tongue. And the fact that he didn’t apologize for it kind of in my mind kind of validates that. So it was a despicable thing that he did. And if any Republican voice had done that, they would be clamoring for his head.
And he probably, you know, there wouldn’t be back on the air. But again, I do think the right thing to do is just let it breathe. Colbert is going to be gone. Kimmel is going to be gone. You’re seeing the acquisition of CBS by Skydance. Let’s hope Barry Weiss gets that job and brings fairness to the media and NBC and ABC as well. I think their time is coming. So let’s not give them a leg to stand on with this free speech, in my mind, kind of fraudulent narrative.
Just let it play out. But we always seem to put our foot in our mouth one way or another, Ed. So let’s see what happens. …
On the meaning of the Charlie Kirk memorial:
ED: We can talk about free speech or First Amendment in a different context, because this was very much a most of it was very much tied to faith. You know, yeah, Charlie Kirk was very much a Christian evangelist. That was part of his mission. That was part of what he was doing on these college campuses. His wife is committed to that as well. … It’s a First Amendment issue too, because the First Amendment guarantees the right to religious expression.
And religious expression just doesn’t mean within the walls of a church. It means being able to live your faith in public. And we have six, seven decades of secularist culture that has really tried to shut that down. And I would argue that it’s replaced it with nihilist religion instead, which is all about narcissism and death. And this to me was sort of a declaration that we’re going to put faith back in the public square.
And you saw immediately the reaction to this. And I’m not saying that the reaction to this should be shut down. Far from it. I believe in the First Amendment, right? But it’s Christian nationalists. It’s Christian nationalists. It’s going to take over. It’s a theocracy that’s going to take over. And I don’t think most people think that. When you talk about forgiving your enemies and when you talk about spreading love and the gospel on campuses, that is not a theocracy.
JOHN: I’m not a super religious person. I’m not an atheist. But like many, I kind of have my doubts. My sister is a Presbyterian minister. But I live my life according to the Judeo-Christian ethic, which is the background of Western civilization that has been stifled, that has And frankly, it’s under siege right now. Because what this really is, it is a battle of religions because wokeism is a religion.
People need something to put their beliefs in, to have faith in. And for many who are secular, that’s wokeism, that’s climate change. And that’s what people like Jimmy Kimmel believe. And they believe it’s a battle of kind of survival for culture. So whenever they see anything, you know, and especially like the service for, you know, Charlie, 200,000 people praying, it does scare them because the imagery is so counter to their beliefs.
What happened when George Floyd was killed? Everyone’s talked about it. Riots, killings, burning down buildings. What happened when Charlie was killed? Prayer services. That is a threat to them. So they have to eliminate that. And that’s why this whole free speech narrative of Jimmy Kimmel was convenient for them to give them something to say, look, they’re bad, too. It just so happens that their guy got suspended. Our guy got killed. …
On Ukraine and Trump:
JOHN: I think what Donald Trump has shown, that he will give you a chance. But if you embarrass him, nothing is off limits. I think bombing Iran’s nuke sites changed the whole dynamic. Because for the first time in decades, America backed up their words with action, serious action. And Donald Trump does not like to be embarrassed. And Putin has made him look like a fool. And you do not want to make Donald Trump look like a fool.
Because I do think he will take action. Now, what is that action? That’s the question. I think what really will be interesting to see is if the administration really gets with the Senate and passes these kinds of draconian penalties on countries that are buying oil from Putin, because Putin’s happy just to sit there. You know, the Russians always win the wars because they just slog it out. You know, they don’t they don’t care how many of their own soldiers die.
And I think Putin still feels he can do that, you know, slog it out, whatever, you know, I’ll get a little bit more. And but, you know, if we really decimate his economy, I think that might get his attention. So, again, I have really no faith in Putin doing anything, but I do appreciate President Trump finally coming to the mindset of we know who the bad guy is. We know what we need to do to support, in my mind, the good guy.
And we’re not just going to say it. We’re going to do it. So, again, I’m always cautiously optimistic with these things, because sometimes the president can go one way or the other. But it is it is really nice to see that he’s realized that he’s been played. And most people who played Donald Trump regret it in the end. And let’s hope Putin is one of those.
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There’s plenty more in our conversation, so be sure to watch or listen to the full podcast below. John has a new tour starting next month, so go to Five for Fighting’s website to see where he will play nearest to you and start making plans. This tour will be with the string quartet, and his daughter and her musical partner will open for him again on this tour. Don’t forget to buy Carla’s new book, Stop Trying!: The Life-Transforming Power of Trying Less and Doing More, and keep an eye out here for our upcoming interview. I’d like to end by thanking my friend John, and reiterate that no one’s gonna get my shopping cart swag away from me.
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